We celebrate our tenth podcast (Woo! *blows kazoo* I seriously thought we would've been lucky to make it to one) by welcoming one of the greatest shortstops in baseball history and one of the best analysts on television, Barry Larkin. Barry has been noted as one of the top baseball analysts around and is the featured analyst on ESPN's live stadium editions of Baseball Tonight on Sunday nights. AA chats with Barry about a multitude of topics including...
-How he got started in his media career
-Why he made the switch from MLB Network to ESPN
-The excitement of taking Baseball Tonight on the road each week for the first time
-The dramatic end of the 2011 regular season
-The player's perspective on postseason baseball
-Which team reminds him of his World Champion Reds team
-His thoughts on a possible induction into the Hall of Fame next year
There's also plenty of talk dissecting the Divisional Series in both leagues from one of the sharpest analysts in the game. If you're a baseball fan or have any interest in the MLB postseason, this is a podcast you won't want to miss. Also, don't forget to check out all of our podcasts at ITunes.
I found myself in a weird spot after reading your take on the documentary and the feeling of Steve Bartman. First, I agree with you regarding the 30 for 30. I definitely do not care one bit about the Massholes that are the Boston Red Sox fans, so the fact the documentary took so much time covering it was ridiculous. However, I am not surprised, ESPN has always been East Coast biased and will continue to be even if the offices are in LA or not.
That being said, I believe you have a very distorted view of what Cubs fans really think of Mr. Bartman. I am from the Southside of Chicago , very loyal to my Sox roots, and realize I might be a little biased with this topic. So I did reach out to all of my Cubs fan friends to see their take on the situation and the 30 for 30. Most of them agreed with the obnoxiousness and stupidity of Cubs fans after that game was correctly documented in the series. I also think most Cubs do realize that any hatred they had towards Bartman was misguided. He interfered with one out in the eighth inning and if he didn't someone would (my Cubs fan friends even admit that all of them would have tried for the ball as well with no hesitation).
"Wouldn't any fan at least be angry at one of their own "costing" their team such a crucial out? Maybe not to the point of hurling death threats or beer, but can anyone honestly be so pious to say they wouldn't join in on the chants of "asshole?" - Do you also justify Raiders fans as normal??? I admit to throwing back a couple of boos or personal remarks to players but fans abusing fans of the same team???
"...but can anyone honestly be so pious to say they wouldn't join in on the chants of "asshole?' "
Yes, I think a lot of us can honestly say that.
While I agree that that Bartman cannot be solely to blame for the loss in game 6 of the 2003 NLCS, I refuse to believe that a curse doesn't exist. The Cubs have had too long of a drought and too much bad karma for there to be no curse. I mean, both Sox ended 85+ year droughts in the past decade in addition to the Giants winning their first ever series title in San Francisco, the Phillies ending a 25+ year drought for both them and the city of Philadelphia, the Cardinals ending a nearly quarter century drought and the Angels and Diamondbacks each winning their first. If all this improbability can happen in a decade without the Cubs, the most starved franchise in all of American sports and due more than anyone else, finally winning it all after a century of futility and heartbreak, then it's proof that the curse is all too real.
You don't blame Bartman "entirely?" Wow. How gracious of you. If you gleaned anything from the documentary, it should be that Bartman is one of only two people in the entire narrative that are virtually blameless (the other is the security guard who gave him refuge in her home). He did what every kid was taught to do from about age 5 - keep your eye on the ball and catch it.
From what I had seen in the documentary, it seems like every fan in the vicinity of the ball was lunging for it just as Bartman did. Unfortunately for him, he was in the right/wrong place in the right/wrong time. His behavior was instinctual just like the rest of the fans. If the Cub fans don't want to blame the Cubs, they can blame themselves because Bartman did what most of them probably would have done -- or probably any other fan in any other ballpark. Blaming Bartman is a classic example of projectionism.
@cbrown Where did I say I was blaming Bartman? Did you actually read what I wrote?
@cbrown I take that back. It looks like your response was to Mr. Yoder -- so you and I are in agreement.
I agree @cbrown. Issuing a statement only came off as desperate by Bartman. I understand he probably wanted to come out of hiding, but that probably slightly increased the anger towards him because of it seeming desperate. I wonder if he's left Chicago. That's what I would've tried to do: move to a small town somewhere where nobody cares about sports, let alone Cubs baseball or the events of the '03 NLCS.
But he is blameless. It's plainly obvious from the replay that if Bartman didn't interfere, it would have been Looney. At least 4 fans were reaching their hands out. Somebody was going to interfere with the play.
Even if you want to hold that Bartman should have had the presence of mind to pull his hands back, the MOST you can blame him for is costing the Cubs one out in the bottom of the 8th. After that, it's ALL on the Cubs. Anything can and does happen in baseball. Even if Moises had made the catch, the Marlins may have rallied with 2 outs or scored 8 runs in the top of the 9th.
Bartman's only mistake was apologizing. He did nothing wrong. Instead of apologizing, he should have made a statement to the press directing them to talk to Alex Gonzales, a guy who was, you know, actually in the game.
" But focusing on that blame forces all Cubs fans to continually live in the past. And until Cubs fans move forward and start realizing there is no boogie man out to get their team, no curse that is waiting around every dark corner, then perhaps many never will experience closure over what happened in 2003. And unfortunately, Steve Bartman will continue to have to live in the shadows."
In my mind, Bartman can't be blameless, he's the one that deflected the ball, it just doesn't feel right as a Cubs fan. But, as the article hopefully suggests, I've come a long way since 2003. I think Cubs fans should forgive Bartman and realize any one of us would have done the same thing, as both of you rightly suggest. There's so many other factors that went into that game that makes Bartman such a tragic figure since ALL the blame went squarely on his shoulders, and still does to some extent to this day. I think that was the silver lining of the doc and the point I was trying to emphasize (above). In fact, I hope some day soon Bartman can be welcomed back to Wrigley with open arms by all fans, with or without a World Series title. The only way that will happen is to move past this neverending blame game that forces us to live in the past.
Yep. It was for Mr. Yoder.